Episode 92 - 100th anniversary of the women's soccer match at the Gabba (with Peter Eedy)

Download and listen to this episode here.

Paul begins this show by noting that Ian is not back, yet. But also, what the hell happened to the last month's worth of scheduled episodes? Short answer: Paul had the lockdown sads. But also, here's a reference from 2004 to then South Melbourne president George Donikian proposing government investment in Bob Jane Stadium (today's Lakeside) to make it a multisport, multi-tenant venue...

Paul discusses some of what's been going on in the Australian soccer history scene over the past month, where he seems obsessed with the story of Parramatta Eagles getting thrown off a plane in 1994 because they were being very silly; and digging in to the history of the long gone national indoor soccer league. (see Roy Hay's interview here on the Geelong Region Soccer Show from 2020 for an in depth look at topic). All of this is summarised in a rambling treatise trying to pinpoint the loss of collective memory in Australian soccer - not just for the great games and goals, but also the little, strange, off-beat, colourful moments which add depth to the overrdiing experience. 

Our guest this week is Queensland soccer historian Peter Eedy. We first discuss Peter's history in soccer history. We discuss process and self-definition - the boundaries between professional an amateur historians, and the difference between historians and mere researchers. Oh, the familiar path of the accidental historian - Facebook groups, Wikipedia, Trove! The quest to find some niche of your own, not replicating what others have done. Peter discusses the intricacies of working on Wikipedia, including his tremendous work on documenting the history of soccer in Brisbane. He also discusses the plusses and minuses of covering the early years of soccer in Queensland and Australia, and the romantic appeal of formative years and origin stories.

In our final segment we cover the 100th anniversary of the women's soccer match at the Gabba, noting that it was not the first soccer match played by women or girls in Australia (see one example here from Harlaxton in 1917). We try to figure out the process by which this match was played - its impulse, its people, its obstacles, its proponents, and its opponents, and its aftermath. The conclusion? Like the men's 1880 match between Kings School and the Wanderers, it may not have been the first game of its kind, but as the first "public" game, it acts as a useful starting point for discussions about the history of organised, continuous women's soccer in Australia.

Episode 91 - Tony Persoglia, and recent acquisitions of Victorian soccer history archives

Download and listen to this episode here.

Oh boy, lots of technical problems from Paul's end this week. 

Paul is joined in hosting duties this week by Football Victoria History & Heritage Coordinator, Tony Persoglia.

We begin the show by cleaning up some sundry details. Mark Boric retired, but keeps pumping out material! And while Greg Stock is updating OzFootball's National Soccer League archive, what are we going to do with the pages with match comments like the ones here? And we also look at the perils of updating pages and links that are used as references on Wikipedia, which may be the only reference to certain overseas players and their time in Australia. Also, a proposal to maybe get a professional librarian to do a little seminar on how to use Trove better. And finishing with an update on the state and tour game data set and archive update.

In our main segment (best watched maybe on the Facebook stream), Tony talks about the recent soft launch of Football Victoria's history page on Facebook, and the acquisition of photo archive, and hopefully of Victoria's Soccer News. Tony talks about a Hakoah Melbourne archive; a Spotswood (1910s and 20s) cache; the collection of the late Luciano Fioravanti, whose collection spans much of the history of post-war Italian-Australian soccer in Melbourne;, and finally, the archive of Dino DeMarchi, the Juventus (Melbourne) legend of the 1960s.

In our final segment we have 100 Years Ago Today, where Paul's laptop with Windows 10 is just about to keel over and die, and thus we are obliged to rush through Tasmania playing against Victoria a hundred years ago.

Episode 90 - Overseas guest players in Australian soccer, with Jason Goldsmith and Lucas Gillard

Download and listen to this episode here.

Paul is joined on the show this week by Jason Goldsmith and Lucas Gillard, the authors of Be My Guest: Football Superstars in Australia, their new book about overseas player guests stints in Australia. Together, we discuss the book's genesis; the research methods and obstacles (with a shoutout to the scanners and uploaders and historians among us); what the guest players themselves remembered of their time in Australia; the motivations of the clubs and players involved; the moving stories of those who unexpectedly played alongside some of world football greats; the dawn and dusk of the guest player stints in Australian soccer; and so much more, across the opening two segments of the show. 

Fair to say, Paul highly recommends this book!

Jason and Lucas stick around for 100 Years Ago Today, where we begin with the Melbourne scores; the footballers at Osbourne House are doing well; and finally, letter writer 'Enthusiast' has some pointed remarks for both the New South Wales state team, and the Queensland state selectors; an article from Adelaide looks at the merits of the various football codes, finding good in all; and Queensland's lady footballers are going to play their match as a curtain raiser to an Australian Rules match - why? Probably because of attitudes from soccer authorities like this.

Episode 89 - minimum standards of national league venues, with Les Street.

Download and listen to this episode here.

Paul is joined in hosting duties by Les Street! The Be My Guest launch has been cancelled, but we were hoping to have on them the show next week. Then Paul discusses the rambling story of retired Scottish forward and current day pundit Gordon Dalziel, whose hazy recollection of playing against Ange Postecoglou in Australia was proven half right. Then Paul and Les segue into a discussion about Scottish football's commitment to accurate crowd numbers, as opposed to Australian soccer's reticence to ever tell the truth about its crowd numbers.

Garry McKenzie has a question about what happens to how records are counted for cancelled seasons - should matches and player records be counted in overall/all-time records? What practices have been used in the past in Australian soccer, like when teams failed to complete seasons - using the examples if Carlton and Eastern Pride in 2001, and Sydney City in 1987.

Then Les goes back to a question raised in episode 80, about where a certain round 1 NSL game was played - Olympic Park or Middle Park - and how Les found the answer. The search for an answer illuminates the nature of soccer reporting, deadlines, and schedules.

We finish the opening segment with a discussion about burnout and self-care. Mark Boric posted a notice of retirement from his blog which indicated a degree of battle fatigue. What are the risks of doing research as a hobby? Well burnout, disillusionment, and what is meant to be a hobby becoming a slog which consumes all your free time, all in pursuit of a "dragon" you can never catch. There'll always be more info and details to chase, spaces to fill, and the payoffs are often brief and fleeting in their ability to elicit pleasure. It's a reminder to take time off, and not let historical work take over - especially if you're not getting paid for it, and especially if it's not longer fun.

Our main segment this week is about the history of national venue standards - a discussion which was prompted by a Twitter discussion about fences at Australian soccer grounds. Les takes us through the history of various (and often) fleeting adherence to venue standards in the National Soccer League - starting with the perhaps surprising insight that the NSL began with the idea of playing at the best venues available to it, having a uniform, central kit supplier - which all sounds rather like the early A-League.

We talk about the way and the reasons for standards slipping - and fences, a discussion prompted in part by this online discussion which kicked off the 2016 Year of the Australian soccer fence. And we chat about the ways that the deterioration ground standards acted to dissuade families and the non-hardcore people from going to games - see the state of stadiums of English football. But also - other sports in Australia also had crowd problems, which prompted thinking from them about similar solutions to what were adopted in Australia. We also look at seating and cover, briefly mention broadcasting. For the A-League match day requirement spreadsheet mentioned in this segment, see this link; also, what happened to the NSL's match day requirements lists?

In 100 Years Ago Today, England vs Scoland match; a quick look at New Zealand debates about the suitability of football for women; correcting scurrilous rumours from Broken Hill that fundraising money for orphans has been squandered; Tasmania invites Victoria for an interstate match; soccer firms in Newcastle; and thorough match reports on New South Wales' tour of Queensland - against the home state, and an even more thorough report; a toast from the Mayor; and a match against West Moreton.

Episode 88 - Germanton 1878, with Garry MacKenzie

Download and listen to this episode here.

This week Paul is joined in hosting duties by Garry McKenzie via Zoom. Paul begins this week's show with a discussion about the difficulty of trying to sort through available match footage online of the National Soccer League, as usual through the prism of South Melbourne Hellas. To wit, the discussion focuses on Paul's attempt to try and find what extant Hellas footage exists on the net, and how to organise. His solution at least in terms of record keeping, is the creation and upkeep of an online inventory. Such a list highlights the nature of the extant footage, a history of national league broadcasting, and the near total lack of available footage from sides other than Newcastle KB from the first six seasons or so of the NSL. Might there be extant footage in Adelaide, Brisbane, or Canberra? Have Australian soccer foragers been too Sydney and Melbourne centric?

Garry then discusses going into the Football Queensland history projects archives. The website is getting an update, for starters. As for the archives themselves, there's so much material yet to be processed - programs, women's association archives, photographs - and what needs to be processed, catalogued, scanned, and uploaded, and in what order of priority. Also, Garry got to test the scanner, and it works! 

In our middle segment Paul and Garry discuss the latter's discovery of the earliest (yet) known game of soccer in New South Wales, in what is now Holbrook, in 1878. Among the issues we discuss:

• How Garry found the article, and the need to keep going back to Trove and reconducting old searches as new newspapers are uploaded.
• Who were the participants, and where did they come from - and where did they go.
• Why Germanton/Holbrook.
• The thoroughness of the match report, including its team lists, and the utter unambiguity about which code of football is being discussed.
• Who was the writer.
• What happened next, and is there any evidence of other games of soccer, or evidence that participants in this game played soccer afterward.
• What it means for the importance of the 1880 Wanderers game.

For a write up of the discovery, see the piece on the Shoot Farken website.

In 100 Years Ago Today, a Perth team travels to Bunbury, minus some of its starts who are playing in the UK vs Australia rep game - and thus we discuss native born vs overseas born players; in Albany, the local soccer writer evaluates the local's team performances, player by player; Norths vs Wests in Broken Hill, and another old boy; to Ipswich, and the controversy of Blackstone Rovers leaving the field in protest, and the unintended consequences and possible class connotations of the incident; the continuing momentum of ladies' soccer, and the public support they seem to be receiving; in Brisbane, why wasn't Mitchell passed the ball!; and throughout the whole segment, a discussion of writerly pseudonyms.

Episode 87 - National Youth League footage unearthed; remembering John Anderson and George Haniotis

Download and listen to this episode here.

Ian isn't here this week. 

First up, Paul has George Cotsanis on the phone to discuss the unearthing of some rare footage, of the 1991/92 National Youth League finals series. Shared by South Melbourne youth team players Tim Schleiger and Mike Lilikakis, the footage consists of two films - a full length video of the Southern Division preliminary final, and a 20 minute highlight package of South's three finals matches from that season, against Heidelberg, Preston, and Sydney Croatia. Paul and Cotsy chat about the unearthing of the footage; its rarity; its insights into the culture of the South youth team at the time; the vision of players across several clubs, that came to be mainstays of Victorian soccer for the next 10-15 years; the archival incidental footage of Eddie Thomson and Ferenc Puskas; Olympic Park in its early 90s state; the cultural snapshot of the crowd.

We also look at what's next for Cotsy in terms of unearthing in even more rare footage... and there's some exciting possibilities! We also note the death of Michael Christodoulou, the last of Victorian soccer's nut sellers.

In our middle segment we have Greg Werner to discuss the recent passing of two Socceroos, John Anderson and George Haniotis. Greg notes that the well credentialed Anderson - who had played at Stoke in the English second division - was one of the many Scotsmen to come to Australia to play soccer in the 1960s. We discuss the reasons - lifestyle, wage caps, semi-professionalism, and limited employment opportunities outside soccer - why players like Anderson came to play soccer in Australia instead of staying in their home countries. We look at Anderson's Socceroo career, which included the 1965 World Cup qualifying campaign, as well as his successful stint in Victorian soccer, especially with South Melbourne. (credit also to Tony Persoglia for his excellent obituary).

George Haniotis' international career lasted four minutes. A steady and reliable defender in the NSL for several clubs, most notably Sydney Olympic, George was a much loved personality in Sydney soccer. But George was also a pioneer, being the first Australian to play in Hong Kong's league, reviving a soccer connection between Australia and Hong Kong that had largely lain dormant for decades.

Finally, Paul zips through 100 Years Ago Today, starting with a news item (see image on right) which mimics the Daily Mail's re-reporting methods of today; the referee abandoning the game as after a Preston player refuses to leave the field after being sent off; women's football gathering steam in New Zealand, with some favourable commentary on both the women's style of dress, but also an acknowledgement that the girls knew the game; more references to the pending women's game at Murray Bridge; two clubs for women being established in Toowoomba; more commentary, obsessed with the women's sense of dress, this time from Sydney, and with a writer rather bemused by the spectacle in the non-PC manner of the time - but which still brings to mind important questions about the inaccessibility of soccer equipment for women, as discussed with Marion Stell and Heather Reid in a previous episode; and finally, a fancy dress soccer match on skates, with insights into who popular celebrities were at the time (hint - silent film stars), as well as someone dressed as Lindsay Kemble, war veteran and female impersonator.

Episode 86 - the rise of women's football in Queensland and Sydney

Download and listen to this episode here.

Paul is here. Ian is sort of here. And the banter is also here.

The big news this week is that Mark Boric has retired from his research, archiving, and preservation work on his blog. For the time being at least however, Mark has committed to keeping up his site.

Ian has an update on a segment from last week's episode, where he digs further into the Edwin Aldred story, and the complicated backstory therein: including a contested military history, changing heights and hair colours, and hard fought insurance claims - a saga lasting even posthumously. Ian also follows up on "Pearce" from last week, finding that it's a Samuel Pearce, where we dig into the socio-cultural environment of Weston during that time, including its soccer, musical, and sectarian qualities. 

After the break we go into 100 Years Ago Today, where we get distracted by the history of accountancy and trade. The nurses at Toowoomba are considering starting a football team; more news of women looking to start soccer teams, and a curious reference to women's soccer in Melbourne; could such a thing have actually happened at that time? And plenty of other coverage of the rise of women's football in Queensland and Sydney, and the different ways in which this manifested itself. And Paul is trying to understand how the idea fermented among these women. Who initiated the discussions? What were the differences in approach and appeal for women from Britain compared to those from Australia? How much did the war time experiences influence the push for women's football? And the question which persists in the early history of Australian soccer: why play soccer in this country? And there's even a poem! 

Then the end of the show gets squeezed, hard.

Episode 85 - Establishing and maintaining Australian soccer history's web presence

Download and listen to this episode here. 

This week Paul is joined in hosting duties in the studio by Greg Stock, and remotely by Garry McKenzie.

Paul notes that he received a present from Greg in the mail, which took so long to arrive that Greg ended up in Melbourne before it. Paul wraps up some Football Belongs feedback, including a tribute at Edensor Park for Ivan "Gilligan" Rendulic. Garry discusses trying to figure out whether there was a family connection between Alec Gibb (Socceroo #51) and Angus "Billy" Gibb (Socceroo #51a) - and an explanation of how mistakes like "missing" Socceroos get made, and then corrected. Greg talks about the process of starting the process of rehabilitating the accuracy of OzFootball's National Soccer League records, and the processes involved in making decisions when informed by sources with contradictory information. We also look at the revamped format of the pages, which will include links to match programs and match footage.

Our main discussion this week focuses on Football Australia's relaunch of the historical online pages, and the status of the equivalent state pages - where they exist. We discuss the holes and shortcomings and mistakes of FA's effort, but we also acknowledge that it's a massive step in the right direction, and we look forward to seeing how future improvements, now that the framework is in place. Especially pleasing is that the Hall of Fame has now been updated significantly from its previous semi-derelict state. And how much information is too much? And what's the next step? And how maybe, just maybe, that the existence of an Australian soccer history community means things like this project happen.

But going around the state federation history websites, and while the situation generally shows improvement from previous efforts, there are still several federations with negligible online historical presence. So far have we progressed since we last did a deep dive on this issue all the way back in episode 6? Who's the benchmark now? What resources are being allocated for improvements? What's going on in the background?

In the final segment, it's a Garry McKenzie curated 100 Years Ago Today, where Garry notes that Ipswich clubs were dominating the main Queensland league competition, and the first mention of the Tristram Shield; then to Weston, and the death of a local soccer player known only as "Pearce"; there's also the death of Edwin (Teddy) Aldred, an English footballer who had played for Leeds City's reserves, an had an extended - albeit contested - history of playing soccer in Australia; and we look at the beginnings of women's soccer in Australia, as discussions start in the press about going ahead with such a project.

Episode 84 - A look at the Football Belongs documentary (with Jason Goldsmith)

Download and listen to this episode here.

We're back after a week's break... well, mostly. Ian's decided to take the rest of June off, so Paul is joined in hosting duties by Jason Goldsmith - and we get an update on his and Lucas Gillard's book Be My Guest. We also quickly look at Ange Postecoglou signing up as Celtic manager, and a missing section on Ange's Wikipedia page. We also get way out of the show's wheelhouse by discussing contemporary football broadcast arrangements.

We also look at Walter Pless' obituary for Tasmanian soccer great George “Chopper” Arnott. We give props to Greg Stock for his ongoing OzFootball work. We also note that Tony Wilson and Rob Heath, who are making the Ferenc Puskas in Australia documentary, are still looking for footage and photographs, as well as accepting tax deductible funding support via their Documentary Australia Foundation page.

Our main focus this week is the full length Football Belongs on Optus Sport. We look at the following topics:

• Who is this for? Who is this being addressed to – considering Ange’s comments about trying to force the game through to cultural centre stage, having it on Optus only, means its going to be seen by soccer football fans only - if "Football Belongs", where and how does it belong exactly? And will it reach the Eurosnobs within Optus' reach.
• The beginning and end with John Moriarty.
• The way the documentary resets the narrative of the past 15 years of Australian soccer and its immigrant/ethnic character.
• The breadth and limitations of its diversity - including the lack of almost any non-English language interviews. And no Jews!
• The general (and understandable) paucity of women in this documentary.
• The way the documentary demonstrates that the clubs within these communities are not just football clubs - they are community and social welfare organisations.
• The way that sometimes the use of non-football people (like Mario and Paul Fenech) detracted from the story.
• Craig Foster articulating the point that Australian soccer needs to utilise its demographic and cultural reach to change the very nature of Australian society.
• We also have some talkback callers throughout this segment! Very good point made by Paul Hunt calling in, asking when are going to start looking at stories like this from a football first, rather than ethnicity first perspective.
• The way in which the film ignores places and demographics in Australia where soccer has always belonged.

After the break we have another caller, asking about why the film shirks away from the matter of why communities have walked away from the ethnic soccer club milieu. Paul makes the point though, that the documentary is called "Football Belongs" not "Football Belongs?", and that the attrition of support for senior grade soccer in Australia goes across the entire country, in both recent and more established soccer strongholds.

And finally, 100 Years Ago Today, where there are a lot of articles discussing what sport is appropriate for women to play, but we’ll leave them until next week when we have Garry McKenzie on. We start off in Mackay, where a new local club is being formed; then head over to Bunbury, for an Australian Rules footballer with an unusual nickname; and then do a sort of deep dive into the Queensland state team's tour of New South Wales, where they fare poorly against against some of the local elevens, but do very well against the New South Wales state side; there's also a remembrance of the Victorian state team, and the hope that they would one day assemble a state squad once more, as they did prior to the war. We look at the different media perspectives of the tour, and some match reporting styles that could be deemed quite harsh on players by today's standards; we look at some of the curtain raiser matches played on that tour, and some sweeping changes to the committee overseeing soccer in the Kogarah district; and down south in the Illawarra, we have a no-show team, and a case of very poor hospitality by a host governing body.

Episode 83 - Glorious lockdown shambles

Download and listen to this episode here.

Still doing the show from our respective home bases, and boy oh boy, technical problems! And being caught out saying bad words! And Frank Brunoskevic! And tedious banter! And strange noises in the background! And Ian not speaking clearly into his mic, even at home!

Then catching up with feedback, sort of, because we're a bit discombobulated. Ian's also still stuck in the 1930s, and what's going on with Preston at that time, and the arcane, unclear nature of player transfers, and spelling variations in player names.

(Paul is also distracted by scrolling through Brunoskevic related antics on Twitter during the show)

Tony Persoglia has been trying to update the first four seasons of the national women's soccer league from the 1990s on OzFootball. Paul also relates some correspondence he received from the son of long-serving Victorian referee Jim Fokianos, and the difficulties in trying to track down referee appearances.

Then Paul gets a bit upset at the "Greece" episode of the Football Belongs episode. You can read a version of his issues with that segment here.

After the break, 100 Years Ago Today, we begin in Ipswich, with a multi=sport carnival, including junior soccer as the feature of a Colliery employees day; then to Brisbane, and the story of a landslide and a delayed mail train, and the Queensland state soccer team; an update on said team, which got off at the next stop at Armidale; the beginnings, sort of, women's rugby league in Sydney, and why they might not have chosen soccer instead; and then finally to Melbourne's results.

In the final segment Ian continues with his research into George Macaulay, including the invitations to trial and play with the Victorian state team. It's an insight into the process of being selected; trialling, travel, publicity, equipment, and all necessary arrangements. Ian also discusses a letter written within the Macaulay family, which alludes to a soccer committee meeting taking place in the Macaulay household, and a soccer match to Wonthaggi - what that means for George Macaulay's playing career, and his personal life.

Episode 82 - Remembering Joe O'Connor, Alan Garside, Bill Mahoney, with Greg Werner

Download and listen to this episode here,

We're locked down again, so we're Zooming again. Also Paul got sacked from his job. And his soccer team's out of action. So everything's going great. It's so bad, that Paul's even getting into "the banter". And there's so much of it.

Greg Stock has started adding match program links to his NSL season files on OzFootball.

Ian tries to buy a signed NSL match program, without success, which leads to Paul musing about why people would be offloading their collections, and the nature of people moving on from any code and onto other activities.

Also, Ian's finding out more about Victorian school soccer... also Paul and Ian trying to figure out what the size of Melbourne's player numbers were. This conversation seems to be meandering more than usual. 

Thank goodness that we have Greg Werner on in the second segment to get things straightened up and focused. Greg's here to talk about the recently deceased Matildas' and women's soccer coach Joe O'Connor, and former Socceroos Alan Garside and Bill Mahoney. 

Irishman Joe O'Connor and his wife Pat were at the centre of women's soccer in New South Wales from the 1960s and 1980s, and thus also at the heart of the national team in the formative decade of the Matildas.

(for some other episodes dealing with Australian women's soccer during the 1970s, when O'Connor was coaching them, see episode 56 and episode 76)

Alan Garside was part of a multi-generational connection to the Granville soccer scene. Garside was a leading goal scorer of early 1950s Sydney soccer, with his record putting him on a par with Newcastle striker Reg Date. Garside represented Australia in 'A' and 'B' internationals in the 1950s.

Goalkeeper Bill Mahoney of Newcastle also played 'A' and 'B' internationals for Australia in the 1950s.

Ian asks the question about what the strategy is for recording and discussing the story of these players; Greg suggests that's it's not just the international representatives we need to worry about, but also the large amount of state representatives, from an era when state league and interstate football held a high degree of importance. There's also the question of Australia's many 'B' international games and tour matches, which featured starting lineups that were vastly different from lineups that would have played in full 'A' internationals.

In the final segment, we have 100 Years Ago Today, where we start off in Toowoomba (and Cawdor), where Ian tries to assure us that Queensland isn't just one cultural mass, but rather a state riven with regional feeling; then to Oakey Western Suburbs, and a strange idea of what a not one-sided game looks like, and encouraging the juniors to watch the senior game to be educated; after Paul gets off his soapbox, we visit Boodua who are playing Goombunjee, and a rainbow strip; then to Hobart; then to Adelaide; then to the Melbourne results.

Episode 81 - The ongoing process of making this a Victorian soccer history show

Download and listen to this episode here.

Paul ponders the personal impact of Marxist alienation.

Then the clean up, with the usual suspects, with veiled references to copyright infringement debates. And book launches to look forward to, eventually.

Then to the show proper - and an update to the Geranium story from last week, including Australian Rules historians backsliding into claiming any archival photographs of football teams as belonging to their sport. 

The Footscray Historical Society is looking for volunteers to help digitise parts of its photographic collection. But the members of the FHS are continuing to provide a wealth of treasures for Ian's research into Footscray soccer, but also school soccer - and thus Ian looks into the ongoing matter of senior ethnic backed clubs from Victoria's State League in the 1960s (and thereabouts), creating relationships with extant non-affiliated junior soccer teams. Ian reads out a letter from Greg Daglis, reminiscing about playing for Sunshine Heights Slavia's junior teams in the 1960s and 70s. And some discussion, too, about the gradual erosion of the importance of public school soccer in Melbourne.

During the break we got a phone call from a listener, which confused the crap out of everyone in the studio. Thnaks Greg Werner, for providing some background on Sydney school soccer from the early 20th Century. Then onto Swinburne Tech and its student journal Open Door, and a poignant story about the death of a soccer loving teacher at the school - and clues into the "40 Thieves", British teachers brought to Australia in the 1920s and 30s. What influence did this teacher intake have on Victorian soccer?

Then more research of Ian's (and the folk at the FHS) on the late era of Footscray Thistle - on the vandalism of the clubrooms, the number of club members serving in the war, and what clues this might offer to the end of Thistle.

Then Ian ruminates on British writer Harry Pearson's The Far Corner, a book on cultural aesthetic of football in the north-east of England. This discussion is meant to illustrate the low value we as a society place on the interests of working class and ordinary people, including their sporting interests. Paul mentions how it's a matter of culture - and mass, low culture especially - moves on relentlessly and unapologetically. And an example of how that football across the world is not popular across all levels or strata of society - see Antony Sutton's reminiscences here as an example.

Then 100 Years Ago Today, where we begin in Kalgoorlie publishing an article from Sydney, where someone's rambling about cricket and football, and the rise of Australian Rules as the "modern game", supplanting other older codes; then to Armidale in New South Wales, and an increase in soccer memberships, and a very early morning start to get to Tenterfield by train; then to Geraldton, for the opening of the local season; then down to Midland Junction and Perth; then still in Western Australia, with Katanning, and Sunday recreation rules; back to Perth, and Aussie Rules and soccering the ball; and Melbourne results.

Episode 80 - Roy Hay on John James Liston

Download and listen to this episode here.

It starts with banter.

Then into the West Gate Bridge disaster of 1970, and specifically the death in the disaster of local soccer identity Bill Harburn.

Then onto a quiz question which excludes the usual suspects from answering. But also, where's the history section on the George Cross website? And is there a protest solution?

Paul notes that Greg Stock has been updating NSL season files on OzFootball, but has some suggestions on how they could be further improved.

We also note the latest update to Mark Boric's site. And FNR flags and Paul's mum sewing.

After the break we have Roy Hay on to discuss the strange case of John James "JJ" Liston (and here's something with more soccer content), who in the 1930s and 40s was president of the Australian Rules body the Victorian Football Association, as well as president of the Victorian Amateur Soccer Football Association. We discuss, among other things: 

• Liston's background, and his wide variety of business, social, and sporting interests.
• The declining condition of football - culturally, economically, politically - in the 1930s; and the idea of the 1930s as a sort of "dark age" when it comes to our understanding of history.
• Ruminations on soccer's status as a participation and migrant sport, which had yet to become a localised/native game.
• The squeezing out of Harry Dockerty from the presidency of Victorian soccer.
• Whether Liston was hands on in his leadership of Victorian soccer, or more of a honorary patron.
• The reaction among the various soccer and Australian rules faction to Liston's taking up Victorian soccer's presidency.
• His idea of merging soccer and Australian rules.
• The soccer (and other) trophies named after Liston, which have since disappeared.
• Liston's son John Ernest being parachuted into the Victorian soccer presidency following J.J's death in 1944.

In the final segment, we have a short 100 Years Ago Today, where five clubs are split across two divisions; and across to Adelaide, where stuff is happening; and to Fremantle, where the local Caledonians come across as sore losers.

Episode 79 - Dylan Arvela and Woonona's 2020 championship

Download and listen to this episode here.

Interminable married couple banter. Some news on the Merewether soccer Anzacs honour board. Then Ian follows up on his research on Footscray Thistle player and Victorian representative George Macaulay, which included meeting George's children, and taking scans and photos of Macaulay football memorabilia - including medals and member ticket booklets. We try to figure out where one of the photos with a scoreboard "G.B.P." on it - Paul thinks maybe the Motordrome. Ian tries to sum up what we've learned about Macaulay and the people he played alongside, and how he seemed to be lost to local soccer - and the ways in which the pre-WW2 soccer culture doesn't necessarily follow through to the post-war period. Also, how Melbourne soccer seems afflicted by a lack of depth, and a lack of native-born players to help carry the culture into second and third generations.

After the break we chat with journalist Dylan Arvela, about his book  A Drop in the Ocean: the story of Woonona's Illawarra Premier League championship, (available for purchase via Amazon). which covers the titular club's unexpected 2020 title run. Among the things we discuss are the history of Woonona, and its comparative lack of success; the current power balance within Illawarra football; what football was like under Covid conditions; what's more important, a league title or grand final win; is it a championship or a premiership?; how different clubs value different titles in terms of importance; the nature of the rivalries of Wollongong soccer; a dramatic final day of the league season; and what else Dylan has lined up to write next. 

(also Paul gets to talk about driving around Wollongong's northern suburbs soccer grounds with Travis Faulks).

We finish with a brief edition of 100 Years Ago Today, where finally we have some news of the Melbourne season, and we finish off with the segment's first ever reference to the Northern Territory, with the arrival of the Geranium in Darwin.

Episode 78 - School soccer in Victoria in the 1950s and 60s

Download and listen to this episode here.

Another week, another episode. Ian's semi-incapacitated, but able to do the show via Zoom - but could this be the end? Then the clean-up, usual shoutout to Mark Boric and Greg Stock. Oh, and the problems with trying to fill in upload forms online for both Blogger and YouTube. Ian's being chasing up leads at the Footscray Historical Society. Tony Persoglia has updated and fixed the 1980s Victorian State League page. 

Then to Adam Muyt's continued research on Dutch-Australian soccer, which has taken him into the Snowy Mountains and the Snowy Hydro Project - this leads to a discussion of "dreaming trails", and the way in which in dissipating or declining culture might continue in the dispersal of its personnel across the years. For example, what happens when the soccer playing migrants working on Snowy Hydro move on at the project's conclusion? Do they take the game with them? Where do they end up?

We finish the segment with Paul talking about his early stage's of reading of George Megalogenis' The Football Solution... let's see if Paul actually finishes it at any point of time so he can talk about it on the show.

After the break, Ian talks about his next seam of research at Footscray Historical Society, which takes him into the condition of school soccer in Melbourne in the 1950s and 60s - seen through the lens of Footscray Technical School yearbooks. We look at the research possibilities opened up by this; what the yearbooks looked like and what kind of they contained; the demographic changes revealed by the yearbooks; soccer's positioning within this school with other sports; and the influence of the institutional push by Victorian soccer bodies to get into schools and improve coaching, including hiring a director of coaching from overseas (which turns out to be Len Young).

(stick around for some dissection of competing contemporary views of the battle for schoolboy hearts and minds)

Ian talks about calling former Socceroo Ted Smith, who played in this competition in his youth. Hakoah's absorption of Swinburne's junior teams, and did this happen more often?

Also, a bit related to this issue of competing for resources, that Collingwood Football Club tried to secure the lease of Northcote Football Club's ground, to maintain it for Australian rules, in the event that Northcote folded. Then then familiar story of fighting of for grounds, and trying to woo future generations (especially of migrants), instead of current generations already wedded to their sport. 

Then 100 Years Ago Today we start off in Portland in western Victoria, where the crew of the Cupid will provide an example of the English game of soccer football; then to the Celebes and Macassar, and Singapore and Malay where soccer rules, where our correspondent observes the sporting practices of the locals; the interstate Australian Rules tournament for railwaymen sees the New South Wales is using soccer tactics; still in Adelaide, a meeting for a soccer practice match; an Adelaide commentator on Australian rules notes the lack of quality in his sport in Queensland and New South Wales, where the existence of rugby and soccer players means that there's not enough quality for Australian rules representative sides - also a show of literary fairness obscuring probably really unfair attitudes towards non-Aussie Rules football codes; and in Newcastle, the season is about to begin, with suspicious transfers between clubs - is it down to professionalism or shifting district boundaries?

Episode 77 - Athas Zafiris on soccer-soldier Joseph Bilbie; Andrew Howe on NSL promotion and relegation

Download and listen to this episode here.

Ian is back in the studio, and has an explanation for why he wasn't available the previous week. His reasons don't impress Paul. But there's a bit of Adelaide content here to make amends for failing to keep up South Australian quotas. Ian also reminisces about listening to Paul's hosting the previous week.

Then the clean up, with due acknowledgment of the wonderful archival work being done by Mark Boric and Greg Stock. Paul goes on with his fascination with the menus of Australian soccer gala dinners of days of yore. Then a digression into one time professional golfer and golf announcer Jack Newton, and the soccer content in Newton autobiography, including oppressive attitudes to soccer from some Sydney schoolmasters when Newton when was growing up.

We're also joined by Athas Zafiris of the Shoot Farken website, to discuss a piece he's written about Joseph Bilbie, early 20th Century soccer start in Minmi, and World War 1 soldier. We talk about the background to this research; Bilbie's story; the impact of Bilbie's death on the local community in both civic and soccer senses; and the wider stories and lessons which can be drawn from the involvement of soccer personnel in World War 1. We also look at the way in which we don't always acknowledge the way soccer was embedded in certain Australian communities at the time, being overwhelmed by the media presence and propaganda of other football codes.

In our second (and as it turns our, final segment for this week), we're joined by Australian soccer's statistician-in-chief Andrew Howe to talk about how promotion and relegation worked in the National Soccer League. Right away we clear up one of the biggest misconceptions (yes, there was pro-rel in the NSL) - but we also get into the nuances of how the NSL's promotion and relegation protocols worked; its similarities to the re-election process in England's Football League prior to 1986, which included evaluating teams coming in and out based on financial and other criteria; how the lack of nationwide second division made promotion and relegation that much more complicated, including the complicated playoff systems of the late 1980s; the teams which rejected the chance to move into the NSL; and the eventual reasons why the NSL abandoned promotion and relegation in any form.

Episode 76 - Heather Reid, Marion Stell and "Women in Boots"

Download and listen to this episode here.

No Ian Syson in the studio tonight, or even via Zoom, and no co-host rustled up either. What is Paul to do other than channel his 2015 uni lecturer self? So Paul puts on a brave face, and dives into what else, but a monologue on trying to identify a problem seemingly ignored by most people practicing the art/hobby of Australian soccer history - that it's not just the game's institutions who ignore or pay mere lip service to Australian soccer history - the great mass of Australian soccer lay community also does the same.

There are great amount of approaches and motivations for those undertaking historical work to do with Australia, almost none lacking validity or nobility... and yet, what's the end game, other those of us engaged in this process looking at each other's work, and mostly failing to engage the Australian soccer community outside our particular interest group?

How do we connect with a culture that seems to exist - and contentedly so - without the burden or gift of knowing of Australian soccer? What if Australian soccer is successful, and popular, without ever needing to resort to deep or even shallow discussions or references to its own history? What is the role of the rare amateur and (rarer still, professional) Australian soccer historian, and their efforts to tell stories, compile statistics, collect memorabilia, and curating archives?

Paul finishes up by wondering if what is really needed for the great mass is not history, but a myth - a unifying story (whether real or not), that allows Australian soccer's participants to feel connected to something (a story, rather than a history) that's bigger than themselves. How you would even concoct such a thing now, when everything is disparate and fractured, is left for another time. 

In the middle segment Paul chats with Marion Stell and Heather Reid about their book Women in Boots: Football and Feminism in the 1970s, which is a predominantly oral history of the first generation of international Australian female soccer players. In the discussion Paul, Marion, and Heather discuss:

• The research methods involved, including oral histories (with all their potential pitfalls), as well as the scrapbooks maintained by the players and their families.
• The twin stories of Australian and New Zealand women's soccer, which grow separately and intersect throughout the 1970s and 1980s.
• The influence of migration -and specifically Englishness - on the fledgling women's soccer scene, for both better and and for worse.
• The often humiliating fundraising efforts required to enable the players to travel interstate and overseas.
• The patronising, sexist, misogynistic, and homophobic media coverage
• The awareness or lack of awareness of the feminist political movements of the time among the players, and their response to it.
• The poor training, funding, facilities, etc doled out to the women.
• The nature of personal relationships - including the frequency of which male coaches and personnel around women's football, who became involved with female players; but also the attitudes to lesbianism within the women's football scene.
• All this, but also much more, including the ordeal of women footballers simply trying to find a suitable pair of soccer boots in the 1970s, and the way many of them came to cherish their pair of boots.

Paul closes out the episode by having a brief chat with FNR producer and presenter Josh Parish about the announcement from SBS that the network will be shutting down its The World Game portal and brand. Paul and Josh discuss the history and influence of the The World Game; the decline in SBS' football offerings over a number of the years; the unknown fate of the portal's archive of reportage and commentary; and the effects on football journalists and the Australian soccer public of having one less outlet solely dedicated to soccer.

Episode 75 - Greg Werner on the late Vic Dalgleish

Download and listen to this episode here.

We begin this show with a clarification - contrary to popular perception of his public persona, Paul actually thinks Australian soccer is going well, which is not the same thing as his own team going well or not. Then a digression into the fleeting overlap between Australian soccer and professional wrestling.

Some good work in the uploading scene with Mark Boric working with Frankston and Mornington Peninsula soccer historian Laurence Hall. We look at a fine obituary for Matthew Boubaris, a Darwin soccer identity of some note, that appeared in Neos Kosmos.

We finish the segment by looking at soccer (history) videographer Ben Coonan's appearance on Hard Quiz, with his specialty topic of the Socceroos.

Our returning guest this week is Greg Werner to discuss the soccer life of Vic Dalgleish, a notable coach originally from Glasgow, and based in Sydney. But first - we discuss Greg's appearance on Mastermind. Then we follow up a discussion from last week, where we discussed touring English cricket teams in Australia, and the soccer matches they played against local sides. Most curious is the idea that those sides - which sometimes included league footballers - would have been the team in Australia when they were in the country.

We then move on to talk about the legacy of the late Vic Dalgleish, a Football Australia Hall of Fame member, and a prominent coach in Sydney, especially in Sydney suburbs that were not then known for soccer. Dalgleish was a NSW state junior coach, and led the Joeys during a successful period in the 1980s. The testimonials from those See also this brief obituary on the Football Australia website.

Greg sticks around for the 100 Years Ago Today segment, where we begin with Sydney with attempts to "rehabilitate the Commonwealth Football Association". Paul asks the question about when the Australian soccer bodies tried to get the English FA to send a team out, whether the Australian bodies ever tried to include New Zealand as part of their attempt to bring out an English touring team; oh, and the formidable logistics of travel and making your money back. The we try to sort out what flavour of politics was Sydney soccer connected to. Then no signs of argument about whether the Newcastle United Club pf the 1920s can be considered a continuation of its pre-war self. Following is a comparison between the attitudes to women's sports overseas and in Australia, and what women are being allowed to do. And finally to Geraldton, where the three clubs are preparing for the new season.

Episode 74 - The epistolary scheming of Willem Siebenhaar; NSL video tranche

Download and listen to this episode here.

We begin this episode by reminiscing about MySpace, but not for long, and read some fan-mail, and celebrate South Melbourne and Melbourne Knights being 1st and 2nd on the ladder.

Eventually Pauls gets to discussing a tranche he's been given of mostly South Melbourne Hellas related videos spanning 1983-1994 or thereabouts (which he's been uploading on his YouTube channel) - clips people may not have seen before, and clips from otherwise poor eras in South Melbourne's history. We talk about the reaction of then Brisbane City player Paul Schiavo to one of the early 1980s clips, and his further recollections on the differences between Brisbane and Melbourne crowds of that era, especially in regards to temperament. Paul also goes on to discuss what the videos as a collective reveal in the form of evidence - of game styles, of stadiums, supporters and the limited amenities, and the resemblances to a lower league English quality of the same time. And the effects on the class makeup of the crowd when amenities are improved.

After the break we look at the brief Australian soccer involvement of the eccentric Dutch anarchist Willem Siebenhaar, in particular Siebenhaar's attempts to get soccer going in Perth and Fremantle in the 1890s. Ian takes great delight in the epistolary scheming of Siebenhaar at trying to encourage discussion and debate about the merits of soccer. Paul wonders if this is more evidence of a cohort of eligible bachelors (and bounders), usually professionals belonging to the middle and upper-middle classes trying to promote soccer. For more on Siebenhaar's life and interests aside from soccer, see his ADB entry.

The last segment is 100 Years Ago Today, where we start with fire brigade soccer in Wagga and Sydney; then to Albury for more Corinthians and Thistles; in Brisbane, the Wynnum players miss the train for their match against Corinthians; then to Weston where there's a meeting for various presentation, and Ian marvels how well organised these meetings are; then down to the South Coast where they thank the ladies in their auxiliary role; and after a brief stop in Rockhampton (see also Joe Gorman's old article on soccer in Nerimbera); the exotic oriented story of the HMS Malaya playing against the Singapore Chinese Football Association; and the attempted revival of rugby union in Victoria.

Episode 73 - Paul Nicholls' 20 matches for the 20th century

Download and listen to this episode here.

This begins with banter encompassing Paul being sick the week before, a scam that Ian and Paul during their time working at uni, and Ian's look at Patrick Skene's new book n rugby league player Olsen Filipaina. Oh, and a comment by Skene that the soccer community is not supportive of people taking the plunge writing important soccer books. That's followed by a promotion for Dylan Arvela's new book about Woonona's 2021 championship success. 

Then more on Footscray Thistle, including updates on a previous post by Ian, including information sent to him by descendants of some of the players in the photo, including leading Victorian player of the 1920s and 30s George Macauley. Some chat also about "lost 'insert suburb/locality/town'" pages on Facebook, which inevitably have little soccer content.

Then Footscray Park bingo and shenanigans with 'footy' posts. And some chat about a heinously mythmaking plaque in Ararat honouring the 'founder' of Australian Rules football, Tom Wills. Paul lets the audience know about how a recently established club in Port Fairy was educated about the history of soccer in the region by a former player from the 1950s Port Fairy.

After the break it's time for 100 Years Ago Today, beginning in Melbourne, and musings about Caledonian society involvement in the game; then across to Albany, with more Thistles and Corinthians... is there something in the existence of clubs named Thistle and Corinthians across the country? Then into a James George Beaney digression, with nothing to do with the segment. 

Back to the segment - in Brisbane, there's a huge increase in numbers and Brisbane and Ipswich, leading to the formation of a second division, and the barest hints of an unnamed professionalism and its effects on recruitment. 

Finally, we get to this week's guest is Paul Nicholls, who wrote an article for Fairplay's Play On magazine's December edition, picking 20 games for the 20th Century. To avoid contemporary biases, Paul limited himself to two games per decade, and this we scamper through his list to look for how he came up with his list. We look at:

• trying to look at the history of the game in Australia as an outsider
• important pre-NSL games, and the importance of pre-NSL era as a whole
• women's games
• the obsession with England
• district vs club debates
• novelty matches like Western Australia vs England cricketers
• Iran '97
• Paul Mavroudis' quibbles with certain selections
• the problems with trying to sort out any list from the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of soccer matches played during the 20th century in Australia.
• Trying to look forward and back at the same time.
• the lack of obvious legacies for many of the selections
• balancing the obvious with the obscure