Episode 36 - Footscray JUST and Schintler Reserve; A Letter From the Front

Download and listen to episode 36 here.

On this week's episode we welcome back Ian back from vertigo, and we look at the recent activity of some of our favourite local soccer historians.

In 100 Years Ago Today, it looks like the ground allocations in Albany aren't going so well; Toowoomba's soccer folk are looking forward to a promising season; in Brisbane, soccer has managed to secure the Gabba for its marquee matches in 1920; there's the usual flurry of activity in Newcastle and the Hunter; and in the Illawarra, attempts are being made to revive the Port Kembla club, which had disbanded due to the enlistment of its entire playing roster for the war effort.

Footscray JUST vs Fawkner at Schintler Reserve, in 1990.
Photo: Graeme McGinty.

 In our middle segment, we look at the demise of Footscray JUST via three prompts. First, beginning an preliminary examination of the various ways in which Australian soccer clubs perish. Second, what happens to the collective memory of an Australian club when it perishes. Third, looking specifically at the loss of Schintler Reserve as a soccer venue. In episode 16 we looked at the difficulties soccer had in securing a permanent (and preferably enclosed) venue in Footscray, which was an extension of the discussion in episode 15, where we looked at the contemporary attempt by Melbourne Victory to secure part of Footscray Park as a training base,

The shipping container lot on the current site of Schintler Reserve.
Photo: Les Street.

The ultimate loss of Schintler Reserve is examined through the lens of the July 1998 civil case Bulic vs Melbourne City Nominees Pty Ltd, whose details are accessible via the AustLII database we discussed in episode 35. The case shows the elongated and unusual demise of Footscray JUST, wherein it was split in two, with one part attempting to transform into a "broadbased" club; then having the football part taken over by an Argentine consortium, and the other becoming a lease holder of an inner city soccer venue without tenants, and with little apparent prospect of rejuvenating of said venue.

In our final segment Ian revisits a leftover item from last year - a rollicking report on the experience of the 34th Battalion from Maitland, and their experiences playing soccer against an English regiment on the war front in February 1918. Peter Coppock's report is both lively and modest, and an exemplary demonstration of how strongly soccer was embedded in Newcastle and its surrounds as a cultural force.

Episode 34 - Paul Hunt and early Tasmanian soccer; Weston Bears and Max Luchessi

Download and listen to episode 34 here.

In this episode we note that Mark Boric has a new secondhand A3 scanner, which as per Mark's nature, has already been to put good use.

Paul discusses some updates to his cultural map, including overseas additions, as well as the ultimate indication of mainstream acceptance of soccer - being asked to the grand opening of a Bunnings Warehouse store.

In 100 Years Ago Today, we visit Newcastle, Albany, and Ipswich, covering politics, grounds, reporters and the persistentence of the club vs district issue.

After the break we chat with Paul Hunt, who recently graduated with honours from Deakin. Hunt's honours thesis was on Tasmanian soccer before 1915, and throughout our chat we cover a number of the themes that Hunt's thesis covers. This includes:

• The difference between a moment (scattered games) vs a continuing culture (leagues and organisations) 
• The impossibility of knowing if there was any soccer played in between 1881 and 1897
• Methodological problems of having to challenge established texts and narratives, such as Chris Hudson's A Century of Soccer 1898-1998, especially when it comes to an era that's poorly documented.
• The space left behind in Tasmanian soccer in the 1890s, by Australian Rules' moral collapse due to gambling, violence and corruption, and the way it allowed other sports (including soccer) to briefly flourish.
• What kind of people played soccer in Tasmania before 1915, including the centrality of military, religious, and British participants.
• The effect of the Boer War on the 1898-1902 competition, in effect the first (known) time that a war had derailed the growth of Australian soccer.
• Emphasising that there were people other than the Honeysetts instrumental to the re-emergence of Tasmanian soccer.

In our final segment, Ian Syson talks about his trip late last year to Newcastle and Adelaide, where his focus ends up on storied Hunter club Weston Bears, and on its great coach (and Adelaide City playing great)  Max Lucchesi who Ian interviewed in Adelaide. Oh, and Ian finds pit village clubs and fields like the ones he grew up with in England.

Episode 33 - Paul Nicholls, Eadie Fraser, and creative non-fiction

Download and listen to episode 33 here.

If You Know Your History returns for its first episode of 2020 in the most creaky way possible, coughing, spluttering, and wheezing our way through the show. Also we ended up with dead air at one point and no Josh to help us - very frightening.

We ease our way back into things by looking at some of what's gone on over the preceding few months, including:

• Mark Boric's continued adventures in scanning.
• George Cotsanis' video uploading.
• John Punshon's continuing difficulties in getting access to Football Victoria teamsheets.
• Noting the small trend of clubs reverting to old names and logos, or incorporating such into new names and/logos, following the end of the old version of the National Club Identity Policy.
• Brief musings on point deductions.
• A quick look at the Daily Tribune's praise for North Korea circa 1965.

Then in 100 Years Ago Today, we travel to Newcastle to inquire after the reluctant Mr Tamlyn, and the men who won't allow him to quit his post; to Ipswich, where we see the seeds of future club vs district squabbles; and to Spotswood and Footscray, where the differences between the annual general meetings of the local soccer and Australian Rules clubs are quite noticeable.

Our guest for this week is Australian soccer Paul Nicholls. Paul's work has been featured a number of times on the show, but his appearance on this episode was prompted by this excellent creative non-fiction piece on the fate of champion 19th century Scottish footballer Eadie Fraser, and the search for his final resting place in New South Wales. We talk to Paul about he got into soccer, and why he's chosen the use of creative non-fiction as his medium of choice for exploring Australian soccer history; and of course talk about the tragic end of Eadie Fraser.

(for more of Paul's work on a variety of sports, including soccer, check out his profile on The Roar site)

We finish the show (without taking our second break) by looking at the recent passing of Paul Mavroudis' father - with the soccer angle of that written up in this piece - and the depressing thought that not only do we not have a unified soccer story in Australia (even a pretend one), but that there's no hope of any cultural continuity being created in the future either.

Episode 23 - Ian's Newcastle trip; Paul's map of Australian soccer cultural map

Download and listen to episode 23 here.

Paul begins the show by reminiscing about how good the NSL's disregard for punctual kickoff times.

We note that Mark Boric has been uploading match programs, including material provided by Graeme McGinty. Also credit to George Cotsanis for uploading some interesting videos, much of which would not have been seen in decades... and the discussion goes back to reminiscing. Even for a history show, that's a lot reminiscing.

And then Ian begins talking about his trip to Newcastle. First, there was the launch for John Maynard's revised Aboriginal Soccer Tribe.. but a lot of people who should have been there weren't.  Then Ian got chauffeured up to Newcastle from Sydney by Todd Blackwell. And then Ian spent the weekend being driven around everywhere by David McGaw. The overwhelming effect was how deep soccer's roots were in Newcastle.

Then Ian went to the Northern New South Wales grand final, and noted the differences between the styles in soccer support between Newcastle and Melbourne... a discussion about the difference between interest and intensity... and how much passion is too much. (For the blog by South Hobart blogger Richard Rants, see this link) And what do grand finals mean and what are they worth compared to finishing on top of the table?

The next day Ian went to the library, but apparently libraries are boring now according to Ian. More fun was catching up with Newcastle soccer historians and historian adjacent people... and more musings on belonging, and the material and cultural conditions which can create that relaxed sense of belonging.

Then Ian talks about meeting Bob Heppelwhite, a West Wallsend stalwart, who regaled Ian with a tale about playing against Reg Date, and Ian missing the chance to tap in old stories of Australian soccer.

After the break is a big announcement from David Eland, CEO of Northern NSW Football, and Greg Groombridge - an offer of a cash reward for anyone who can help find the whereabouts of the Merewether Advance roll of honour.

Then 100 Years Ago Today with the thrilling conclusion to the 1919 Victorian league season.

And finally, the birth of Paul's Australian cultural map project.

Episode 15 - Soccer club nicknames; Newcastle (looking for foundations); battle over public spaces

Download and listen to episode 15.

In this episode Ian falls down the wormhole of Sid Grant and Harry Hetherington's 17 volume History of Soccer in New South Wales on Mark Boric's site.

We also quickly covered the uploading by some pseudonymous character of footage from the 1982 Coppa Italia final in Melbourne - as broadcast on SBS, and commentated by Laurie Schwab - and the value of these items, and the difficulty in finding them and preserving them.

Ian notes that he and Roy Hay have each contributed a chapter to the scholarly text The Early Development of Football.

Then comes 100 Years Ago Today, which includes some discussion of the phrase "soccer rules".

After the break is a discussion of certain Australian soccer nicknames (especially in New South Wales), which followed on from a discussion a couple of weeks prior. Listener Graeme McGinty wrote in to explain why certain flowery names were chosen, and Ian read this letter out on air. McGinty's letter suggests the "pretty" names were chosen to disassociate themselves from either (Protestant/Catholic) sectarianism, or from the harshness of the industrial work many soccer players would have been involved with in the late 1800s or early 1900s.

Ian segues into looking at the foundations of Newcastle soccer.

Then in the final segment we wade dangerously into contemporary issues by looking at Melbourne Victory's attempt to acquire a lease for land at Footscray Park, by trying to steer the conversation towards the historic difficulty that soccer has had in obtaining grounds at the margins of councils, or on the worst public land. Paul refers to in particular to Schintler Reserve chapter (in other words, the struggle for soccer to access land in Footscray) in John Kallinikios' Soccer Boom. 

But we also look at the concept of passive recreation; and then taking that further by looking at the comparable historic situation at Middle Park and Albert Park, using Jill Barnard and Jenny Keating's People's Playground as a guide for how people interested in this topic should broaden their ideas of us and them when it comes to public space in Melbourne.

Episode 5 - Bonita Mersiades and Fairplay Publishing; how to use Trove

Aussie soccer administrator and now media mogul Bonita Mersiades had a
 chat with us about her Australian soccer publishing effort Fairplay Publishing.

Download and listen to episode 5 here.

We begin with our weekly clean up, where Paul corrects a heinous error he made the previous week.

We also pay tribute to the Queensland historians who are doing some good work, including some work on Goodna and Woogaroo, and the hunt for various Fletchers.

Paul promises to try and get a website up in the new year.

The 100 Years Ago Today, where there's not much going on in the off-season, but we start with Newcastle with a post-season affair, which was a sombre affair in the wake of another war death, though the war is nominally over. We look at the language of the relevant article, its ordinariness, and the role of women at the time.

Then we cast aspersions on our audience, based upon their states.

After the break, we chat with Bonita Mersiades, the founder of Fairplay Publishing, an Australian publishing company specialising in soccer stories. We talk about

• the impetus for Bonita to found the company.
• the difficulties in being an independent publisher in Australia.
• some of the books that Fairplay is looking to publish.
• learning curves, and the collapse of Australia's main independent book distributor.
• why won't mainstream publishers put out more Australian soccer stories?

In the final segment, we take a look at Trove, the National Library of Australia's online archive. We look at:

• what Trove covers in terms of regions, content, and eras
• Trove's limitations
• what to look out for when doing online research on a service like Trove - for example, awareness of the political and editorial lines within newspapers
• the perils of 'digital narrowness', and being of the social context your research is located in
• how to tag articles
• poor scanning of the text - and the ways you can work around this obstacle
• for soccer, the game having different names across different eras
• the importance of learning search techniques
• the problem of discerning who these writers are
• the benefits of registering an account on Trove

Episode 2 - Australian soccer and literature; Extended trophy discussion

Download and listen to episode 2 here,

Rudderless without George Donikian's guiding hand, Ian and Paul cast off into uncharted waters. The first ten minutes meander with attempts to put forward a manifesto, or at least some sort of method - only committed listeners will find out if any of these regular segments actually materialise.

The whole world then celebrates Paul's finally getting his thesis passed. The thesis was about the relationship between Australian soccer and literature, and soccer and Australian literature,

• the difficulty about talking sport and the arts at the same time in Australian culture.
• the paucity of academic and community awareness of Australian sporting literature.
• the Austlit database, which is accessible via university databases for those in the tertiary sector, and via state library websites.
• the many ways in which the literature differs in its discourses from the ways in which journalism and mainline histories discuss the experience of Australian soccer
• the ways in which the literature challenges monolithic understandings of Australian soccer in terms of ethnicity and gender readings.
• the idea that demographers, historians, sociologists etc have not taken literature seriously when looking at the Australian sporting experience.
• an extended discussion on The Earth Cries Out, Harold C. Wells' novel on mining in the Hunter, which includes occasional snippets on soccer.

After the break, the discussion moves to missing trophies, and particularly Victoria's Beaney Cup, and the George and George Cup, and the sage of their theft, pawning, and involvement in court cases. The discussion also touches on the virtual disappearance of soccer from Victoria during the 1890s and early 1900s.

Then onto the Gardiner Cup, New South Wales' long-running knockout cup, and a discussion of the nature (and material value) of trophies, and the cultural difference between trophies and pennants. Then a discussion on the FA Trophy, which was donated by the Football Association for interstate competition in Australia, which was assumed missing... but is it actually?

And then onto the very well-known story of the fate of the Australia Cup trophy... and how soccer cultures evolve in the things that they care (and don't care about), and the ways in which people in the game take care of historical artefacts - and what happens to a club's trophies if the club goes defunct? And who is responsible for maintaining those artefacts? Oh, and that dreaded museum debate...

Episode 1 - Soccer and war; What should we call the game?; George Donikian;

Download and listen to episode 1 here.

With Ian and Paul being novice radio presenters, the first episode of If You Know Your History on Football Nation Radio was guided by George Donikian. After a brief introduction of the background of the show's hosts, the show's premise is put forward - to talk about the hidden history of soccer in Australia; to talk about soccer's ordinariness in Australia - that it has been a normal part of life in Australia for a very long time; but also to explore the extraordinariness of Australia - the stresses and travails it has had to endure as a sport and cultural product; to explore the cultural embeddedness of the game, or its lack of cultural embeddedness. The way that the game forgets both recent and old histories, and soon forgets them again.

We discuss the limitations of analysing Australian soccer solely through the lens of migration, especially continental European migration; that a fixation with such an analysis obscures the histories of soccer as it existed before the arrival of those migrants, as well as obscuring the histories of regions where soccer had become culturally entrenched, or of groups who had to overcome or exist outside the cultural dominance of those kinds of migrants in Australian soccer.

We move on to one of the 'problems' of research into soccer and football in Australia - the assumption that soccer was the only game which used a round-ball, when in certain eras different football codes also used round balls. But Paul also opines on the manifesto he came across a few years previously of 'keeping local histories, local' - the idea that local people are more often than not the best equipped to preserve and display their history, as opposed to historians from remote/centralised institutions; that as valuable as it has to have centralised historical expertise, it is even better to be able to find ways to increase the skill level of amateur historians across the board.

(for brief further insight into this idea, see Paul's summary of the keynote speech at the 2012 Worlds of Football conference, made by Kevin Moore, who was then Director of England's National Football Museum)

After the break, there is a discussion on what to call the game - should it be 'football' or 'soccer'? Ian makes the argument for the use of the term 'soccer' for the purposes of clarity - there are many football codes in Australia, and linguistically flattening the term 'football' to inherently mean 'soccer' would create an ongoing issue of clarification of terms.

George then digresses into a brief anecdote on the changes of the names of the different football codes in his own career as a newsreader.

(see also an old piece from Ian from 2012 which creates the framework for merely using the word 'football' doesn't necessarily work, and that the ideological push by some people involved with soccer to commandeer 'football' as the name of the game is based on some ahistorical ideas; sadly, the Martin Flanagan article, about whoever owns the term football subsequently owning the future, quoted by soccer people in several places, seems to no longer be available online).

Paul's opinion on the matter is that there has also been a deliberate campaign of shame directed at the term 'soccer' both from outside the game, but also from people within the game, and that this latter source of historical revisionism also seeks to flatten the experience of the game when it was known predominantly in English as 'soccer'. But also that the other football codes have divested themselves to a degree of the term football, using names such as 'AFL' or 'NRL' as the de facto name of the sport, especially in new markets.

(see also Joe Gorman explanation for why he used the word 'soccer' in his book The Death and Life of Ausrtralian Soccer: "I use the word “soccer” deliberately. Of all the things this book seeks to do, understanding the past is the most important. The lexical shift from soccer to football that occurred in 2004 might have brought us in line with the rest of the world, but it betrays our own history. (2017, p. 6)

One of the key points is that the the name 'football' belongs to the code which has won in its respective territory - Ian says 'it is the name you get for winning the local battle', while Paul adds that 'football... is a loaded term embedded within a culture'.

Then follows first appearance of the 100 Years Ago Today segment, and a game played between Maitland and Newcastle representative teams; the relaxed nature of the game in the region, and the 'obviousness' for local labour organisations using soccer as part of their recreation activities; acknowledging, however obliquely, that even though this episode was broadcast on Remembrance Day, on the same date a hundred years earlier the news of the Armistice being signed would not have been known yet in Australia.

Then a brief digression into the idea of digital narrowness - that modern digitally focused research amplifies the possibility that researchers would find only the material they are looking for, and missing out on the social context the game existed in. Also a discussion on the problem of archival newspapers using pseudonymous writers.

We finally get into a discussion about Australian soccer and World War 1. Includes talk of: Irymple; The Soccer Ashes, still missing for decades; the cost of war to Australian soccer proportionally; the idea that soccer may not feel like it is Australian enough to participate in the modern pageantry and co-option of World War 1 commemoration by other football codes; the discomfort some may feel about trying to venerate the connections between sport and war.